I would stipulate however, that the necessary precondition to repealing these laws be an open and honest education about these substances vs the reefer madness based nonsense we get today.
We do not even get appropriate education about alcohol for goodness sake. This is a problem with education. But I could go on all day about the holes in the education system.. The move away from critical thinking and towards learning by rote and examination being a huge one..
If you have read any of my other posts I have advocated the focus on education and personal responsibility consistently. These plants have been considered sacred for millennia, and should be shown respect, rather than being thought of as party drugs which they are not.

My apologies that you got bombarded with this discussion. This is the downside to the email notification system I guess..

However(!) the argument that cannabis is a gateway drug is pure bull. Fair enough, you’ve witnessed some terrible things (and I can be completely honest and say I have too) but that doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen to everyone. Yes, chances are the average heroin addict didn’t start off on heroin but rather by smoking joints. But you can be sure there was probably external factors, social or family or whatever, that also played significantly influential roles bringing them to where they are today. By that argument alcohol and cigarettes are really the gateway drugs.

At the end of the day the war on drugs isnt working and globally we all need to take a good hard look at what we can do to help the situation we are in. By keeping drugs illegal we give the bad guys one of the most successful and profitable markets on the planet. However, by legalising them there is a very real risk we could put ourselves in an even worse situation that we’re already in and one that will be very difficult to get back out of

You’ve basically been trying to argue that because where you grew up everyone ended up on heroin that this is the case for everyone. You’ve pretty much stated that those I know who have smoked weed (including myself) will probably end up in the same place. You’ve tried to tell me that I was a junkie.

“in my opinion still harmful for the society” – this is exactly what I meant by saying that you do not have the ability to see anything below the surface of what comes to your mind. Do you not already see the harm that is being done to society by criminalising otherwise law-abiding citizens? The drug wars? The channeling of profits to criminal enterprises when it could be taxed and regulated like any other business?

“In fact, It’s a tragedy when young people die. It’s all starts as an innocent hobby (experiments with drugs) and ends up in the coffin. Artists, famous people we see, many others just die alone. Apart from direct drug use there are indirect casualties. In Ireland, for example, one of the highest suicide rates in Europe.” – This is a very small minority of drug users. You obviously can’t see that this isn’t the norm. And as for the suicide rate, that has absolutely nothing to do with drug use in Ireland. Most people will turn to drugs if they have problems in the first place, they don’t commit suicide because of drugs. I know three people who have killed themselves and none of them used drugs. Although there are obviously some cases where it is the cause, again, it is not the norm!

You obviously have no knowledge of drugs, any kind of ability to see beyond some stupid ideas and no intention of learning.

That list proves absolutely nothing mate.. Besides the fact that alcohol and prescription drugs are as dangerous if not more than cocaine and heroin, just as Professor Nutt had stated in his report..

And you have just shown your ignoarance yet again. You refer to a video – obviously out of context, about functionality on Salvia Divinorum. This is a psychedelic, an entheogen in fact, smoking it allows you to meet Lady Salvia. You are supposed to take it sitting or lying down and experience the trip, in fact, you will feel something holding you down. Anyone could tell you psychedelics are not conducive to every day functioning.. You’re hallucinating for goodness sake!
Besides, how long do you think it lasts for?

Ooh, I was debilitated for all of FIVE minutes and then I was sober again, if a little stoned..

All your examples relate to drug abuse versus drug use. And is yet another fallacy.. You’re actually embarrassing yourself now whether you realise it or not..

In fact, It’s a tragedy when young people die. It’s all starts as an innocent hobby (experiments with drugs) and ends up in the coffin. Artists, famous people we see, many others just die alone. Apart from direct drug use there are indirect casualties. In Ireland, for example, one of the highest suicide rates in Europe. Add legal drugs and it will double.

There was drug related death in my family as well, it’s not a laughing matter for me.

Apart from all that – even drug use is disability. Look at the YouTube videos where this guy tries to be productive under salvia. It looks like serious illness.

I know you asked, nay told me, to stop playing logic class but seriously dude, you NEED it. Your posts prove that.

Angryzes: How is weed harmful to society? Stoned people don’t start fights. Stoned people like to be in a positive atmosphere. I’m a musician and an artist; I find weed, shrooms and salvia diviorum (among other things) to be incredibly useful inspirational tools. What are your favourite bands? Unless you like Christian music, I can almost guarantee you that a great deal of your favourite artists wrote at least some of their music while on some kind of drug. To quote Bill Hicks: “If you are against drugs then take all those records of yours and burn them, because you know all those artists that wrote those great songs? REAL fuckin’ high..”

It seems that you, my sadly deluded friend, are against any humans using their free will to decide whether they want to experiment with any substances. You want the choice removed. Who the fuck do you think you are? Why should anyone pander to your brainwashed notions of what is or isn’t good for us? You’re on the losing side, the side of the heavily asleep. You will never experience any kind of enlightenment. You will never grow. With your attitude, you’ll continue to devolve. The process has begun…

They have a knack for taking a good thing and messing it up completely haven’t they?

Which is it Angryzes, addiction may well be classed as a disability, but you said “use”.

By the way, methadone is far more addictive than even heroin, at least you can go cold turkey from heroin, ask a methadone user if they can do the same..

Now, if Iboga wasn’t a controlled substance these people could ingest the roots of the Iboga plant, vomit wildly (the purge) then reexperience their life from the point of view of everyone around them.
Their cravings are interrupted for about 6 months – long enough for them to have gone cold turkey and no longer be addicted.

The drug companies tried to make a drug out of the Iboga plant, ibogaine. But it’s not legal either..

So why do they consign ex heroin addicts to a life of further addiction when there is a perfectly good way to end the cycle that has an alarmingly high success rate?

Couldn’t have anything to do with corporate profits now could it?

We are lacking education. As I tried to explain to P Wurple above, psychedelics like mushrooms are supposed to be about reexamining yourself, facing your bottled up emotions and emerging out the other side – that’s why it’s called a “trip”.
Because these things are not treated with the respect that they once were, people take them at parties, and if they have unresolved issues, or dont know the scale of what they are getting into – that trip is not going to be a good one.

Our government banned substances that make up part of certain spiritual practices, because a couple of uneducated people didnt treat it with respect. It was a knee jerk reaction..

By the same token, teenagers and drinkers fill A&E at the weekend, should alcohol be banned? And if not why the hypocrisy? Alcohol has been demonstrated time and time again to be far more harmful than these substances, but it’s socially acceptable..

You know the reason behind their demonisation is primarily religious don’t you? The “witches” of the bible, the word translated as witches is Pharmakeia, meaning drugs.. It was due to this that their use fell out of the same levels we would see alcohol used at now.

Pre-Christianity, their use was a part of “coming of age”, as it remains in indigenous cultures.. A rite of passage into adulthood, supervised by an elder.

It’s the lack of education and respect for these substances that is the problem, not necessarily the substance itself.

Yes, drug addiction is a disability. I’ve seen enough examples of that and this fact is recognized by the state which intoduces methadone programs, rehabilitation programs, etc. So, because this question was not just about cannabis legalization but legalization of all drugs, I have the rights to say that.

As of cannabis, I already wrote here that it’s not heavy drug but in my opinion sitll harmful for the society if it will have same level of use as tobacco, for example. If you need it to cure cancer – that’s different story altogether. And I am against both tobacco and alcohol use, so do not use that argument that drugs must be legalized because these subtances are legal.

you can get pure cannabis bud grown in proper conditions and its legal in a number of Country’s from this place
http://www.bedrocan.nl/

I wonder will anyone be allowed to challenge the monopoly given to G,W pharma or will Ireland’s government only allow one dealer here
When the U,S end cannabis prohibition and it will soon there will be a gold rush to the business end of this drug all over the world and that is going to happen so what position will Ireland be in then when most people here still believe the Prohibition lies from the 1970s
Ireland needs a proper regulatory system that will control the production distribution and consumption of all substance tobacco , alcohol, even heroin because that is the only way to minimize the dangers.
proper sensible laws that are designed to remove the Black market and protect the consumer and the public and a sensible tax that will help pay for a health system

it stinks to high heaven….& its even more annoying when a family member of the person defines their own loved one like this.

doesn’t take a genius to realise theres bad science stamped all over the connection between cannabis & psychosis, & most of these reports are actually agenda laden scaremongering….considering how low the numbers are, & the much bigger drug issues in society that get ignored by these same media outlets

Drug companies operate in patents, there’s no big profit in selling the same thing someone can grow in their garden or buy anywhere else. You cannot patent nature, so the molecule must be altered sufficiently to secure the patent. Then it’s no longer natural..

Plus, it’s not addictive to start with, nor does it CAUSE craziness. So either the way it was put to you is fallacious or you have misunderstood the chemistry involved.

You can extract DMT, you can even synthesise it, but you cannot patent nature, so if it’s got a brand on it, chances are its not actually the same thing.
.
As an example (mentioned above) when the EU introduced the EU FSD hey had a list of “safe” ingredients for food supplements. There was about 20 chemicals listed under each vitamin and mineral, as each pharmaceutical company has their own unique patent on a vitamin isolate. Some of these patented nutrients not only do not behave the same way in the body, some can interfere with nutrient absorption(eg DL-alpha-tocopherol), some are even toxic (sodium selenite).

The safe list didn’t include food source nutrients, as in, the ones chemically identical to the stuff you find in food. This was why the ANH had to challenge it in court because the EU were about to deem food unsafe!

As we all know the synthetic, patented cannabis makes people sick. This is the one that allegedly passed the FDA for safety. If they were to make a drug based on psylocybin you can guarantee they would alter it just enough to get the patent, but that’s all it takes to change the way the body responds to it.

This was what I meant by man made drugs, I should have specified.. thank you for giving me the opportunity to clear that up.

decriminalisation only fixes the problem at street level, and still leaves gangsters in charge of manufacture & distribution…..& the big money.

you know a kilo of cocaine at source costs less to produce than a bag of sugar

look at the street prices…..this money is going to very unscrupulous people, with no regard for human life……..

& think about this……all this money isn’t stored in a drug lord/narco terrorist’s hut in the jungle of columbia or bolivia either…..it goes right back into the banks…….drug lords come & go, quickly…..but the system that supports then, & PROFITS FROM THEM stays in place…..why?

its the new right wingers in holland that are pushing to stop the tourism, one of whom is the ‘king maker’ there right now……there is a backlash to this starting there now though…………Copenhagen are now considering cafes & have said they may well welcome tourism!

this is going to spread, not die!

that’s nonsense…..all of it

I apologise if logic offends you, but it’s kinda vital to have a reasonable, adult debate. And I was giving you a heads up there because attacking the man rather than their argument is specifically against the rules for the comments section and they can and will ban you for it.

I’m all for your freedom of speech, and I defend your right to say whatever you want, but you need to take responsibility for it. If the best argument you can come up with is fallacy, then you don’t have an argument, you just have some assumptive nonsense and personal insults – which is really quite childish and unnecessary.

driving after a large dose of cannabis is irresponsible behaviour…… this is not a result of the substance, but rather human stupidity……..I would think that drug driving or other reckless behaviours after drugs is a far bigger problem with other substances rather than cannabis…..people don’t get reckless after consuming cannabis, quite the opposite actually.

try driving after valium……compare to driving after cannabis

There are several theories about these substances being responsible for our evolution, theories about them being responsible for religion, and then there’s the healing effects of certain ones..
Your insinuation is rather disrespectful to this aspect of other peoples spiritual lives..